sounds like a bunch of people that don't understand how business works.

Unfortunately, it looks like they do understand how business works.

Due to the various state, county and municipal laws that exist, we are not always able to comply with each individual guideline. Not all of the restrictions are based on laws on the books, but could be a company decision based on certain concerns. Things such as whether the state law suits pending involving gun owners, recent court decisions that may effect businesses like ours. Finally it may be that the states laws are so vague that they could be interpreted unfavorably in the event a court action was ever involved, and finally as a public held company, we are obligated to safeguard our stockholder's investments.

They're right, even if you do everything to the letter of the law you can find yourself sued out of business by a crusading politician who wants to make an example of you. (Consider the lawsuits against gun manufacturers.) That sucks, but they didn't create the situation, voters in those states did. And if they feel it's too risky, it's their right to stay out of that market. Of course it's also anyone else's right to demand that they take that risk or lose business from even more states, but I certainly wouldn't.

I was talking about the forum members actually.

It's real easy for the forum members to say "Take a stand for what's right" when the only thing the forum members are risking is access to another online store.

I understand Sportsmansguide's position completely.

This is a silly position for them to take. While Maryland may have politicians that support gun control there are few restrictions as to the sale of ammunition, and I am unaware of any lawsuits against ammo dealers. perhaps they've had an unusually bad experience dealing with our government, but there are many stores that sell ammo here just like anywhere else. I'm curious about the specific incident that caused this policy.

I have to agree with you. If someone wants to get ammo in to DC they are going to do it. If it were me I would write them a very nice letter explaining that for that reason you are not going to buy anything from them and that you will tell every one you know to do the same. That is just me.

I wont be buying any time soon...

Heh. They just lost a customer without ever knowing it.

Although frankly, I probably would have ordered my stuff from somewhere else anyway. They don't sell high-cap 10/22 magazines, which is what I'm currently keeping a weather eye out for. (along with my C&R, along with a reasonably priced SKS.)

You should write to them and tell them they lost one and why. I already did.

Hmmmmmmm......

I have 2500 rds ($250) of ammo sitting on backorder.

Maybe I should threaten to cancel it all?

I wonder how they'd react to that.

Especially since I live about 10 miles away from Mass (where it is illegal to ship ammo). What's next? Not shipping ammo to me because I'm too close to them?

I'm going to sleep on it. I'm tired and likely to do something rash.

Not shipping ammo to me because I'm too close to them?

Yeah, we're already dangerously close to that situation.

Yeah, I think I'm going to send them a nasty email, and if they don't satisfy me, I'll cancel and reorder from Cabela's. They seem to have similar stuff, though at 10% more. But, my father in law has ordered from them for many many years (he gets the hardbound catalog) and has yet to have an issue.

Sent to SG

Dear Sir or Madam,

I have been a loyal customer of yours for many years. I am even a buyer's club member (ID # XXXXXXXX). However, your recent decision to not ship ammunition to certain areas of Maryland because of their proximity to Washington DC concerns me, particularly because I live within spitting distance of Massachusetts, which has similar restrictions. I am concerned that one day, I shall place an order and it will be rejected because you folks have redrawn the areas to which you will ship, yet again. Rather than scramble to find a new ammunition supplier, I would rather do so preemtively.

To that end, please respond with a clear definition of what your plans are to address this issue. Specifically, I am requesting a change in your company's policy such that you will not ship ammunition to states where doing so is illegal, but that you will ship ammunition to all regions of states neighboring those states. Namely, that I will always be able to get ammunition shipped to me in Rhode Island (unless, of course Rhode Island makes it illegal), and that this gentleman in Maryland will always be able to have ammunition shipped to him (unless, of course, his locality makes it illegal).

There are several discussions about this policy:

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=29&t=219580
http://www.livejournal.com/community/guns/722016.html
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=481944

And it is rapidly having the effect of lots of folks pledging to never do business with SG again, unless this policy changes.

While I understand your righs as a company to do this, and I even agree that it might be in your company's best interests to do so from a legal standpoint, I also have the right as a consumer to choose which companies I deal with based on said policies.

Additionally, please note that I have over $200 worth of items on backorder with SG (1000 rds of wolf 7.62x39 FMJ from order XXXXXXXXX plus a bunch more stuff I ordered on 01/06/2006, but don't yet have an order number yet). Please be advised that the states of these orders are in jeopardy, pending the output of this exchange.

Please also note that the entirety of this correspondance will be posted on the internet, and therefore subject to all the dissection, ridicule, and heckling that this entails.

Thank you very much for your time

Matthew Caron

Got a reply

Dear Matthew,


Thank you for the E-mail.

We have placed certain restrictions, on certain items listed in our catalog and our web site.

Due to the various state, county and municipal laws that exist, we are not always able to comply with each individual guideline. Not all of the restrictions are based on laws on the books, but could be a company decision based on certain concerns. Things such as whether the state law suits pending involving gun owners, recent court decisions that may effect businesses like ours. Finally it may be that the states laws are so vague that they could be interpreted unfavorably in the event a court action was ever involved, and finally as a public held company, we are obligated to safeguard our stockholder's investments.

We do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

If you have any other questions please contact us.



Enjoy the Outdoors,



Katie Smith

Customer Service

My response:

Indeed, and while I can completely understand all of what you have said,
this line:

"and finally as a public held company, we are obligated to safeguard our
stockholder's investments."

is what bears the greatest truth: in order to force you to change the
aforementioned objectionable policies, I must create a threat to your
stockholder's bottom line.

Therefore, to that end, effective immediately, please cancel all
outstanding orders which I may have with you. This includes:

(1) The remainder of order XXXXXXXXX
(2) The as-yet unnumbered order placed by me on Friday, 01/06/2006

Additionally, please remove me from all mailing lists and email lists.

Should you ever change your policies to ones more desirable to me, do
not hesitate to contact me.

I thank you for your time, and am disappointed that we can no longer do
business.

We have the same problem here in Massachusetts. And ernunnos is right, it spills over state lines, as well. I opened up a mailbox drop in New Hampshire (I live near the state line), Sportsman's Guide won't ship ammo to me there either.

The specific reason is that a while back MA Attorney General Tom Reilley threatened to sue Sportsman's Guide because they'll ship stuff that isn't legal to buy in this state (large cap mags, for example). Sportsman's Guide doesn't know if I'm a legit gun owner, or a Reilley operative looking to screw them over, so I'm unable to get the interesting stuff from them.

You've got to figure that anti-gun politicians know this.